A Topic That Concerned Me

[Chris]

Yesterday whilst arguing with KidKris, he made a comment which made me think, and made him look very silly indeed. Basically we were having an argument comparing AJ Styles to The Great Muta, Kris said he has never seen Muta wrestle but he is still rubbish, whereas AJ can do pretty flips so he is the best wrestler in the world. When we brought up the topic of wrestlers like Race, Funk, Misawa and Flair etc, the response was the same. Plus saying that Misawas, Flairs, Race's and Funks matches were NOT real wrestling, describing it as....

"load of fat wrestlers (mostly) kicking the poop out of for 15 min".

Where as the X Division madness that AJ, Sabin and Evans take part in is considered as great. Now onto the point. I am going to let this subject be discussed on here, what do you prefer to see. Wrestling in the form of wrestlers like Misawa, Muta, Funk, Race, Flair and others, or highspot madness from AJ, Evans and co.

[Jesster]

I've never been too impressed by flips. I have a good friend who's a great gymnast, so I've seen far more impressive flips in her gymnastics class than I've seen in the ring.

Not to take away form the skill and fearlessness it takes to do those flips, and it is now a part of wrestling. But it's not the wrestling I love. My favourite promotions to watch on TWC are Noah and WoS. I might watch TNA for 15 minutes, but I get bored of it quickly. Word of Sport or Noah have me hooked though, the rest of my family as well (Who aren't wrestling enthusiasts) so there must be somethign else about it.

[twissie]

people like kidkris need to read some books. AJ Styles is a good wrestler but being able to "flip" only means (to me) that hes a good gymnast. I love watching some old school wrestling and back then, people actually thought wrestling was real. To say flippy wrestling is real, is super retarded. I doubt an X-Division guy would start a riot because half of them are about 2 foot tall and lack charisma.
Nowadays, a six year old would see wrestling as fake because its turned into a big pantomime of "oooohs" and "ahhhhs". Plus its more like a soap opera and wrestling story lines probably go more over the top than most soaps would. Some old school guys didn't even hit the ropes because it didn't seem real. kidkris, you certainly need to be educated.

Also the big fat guys kicking the poop out of each other looked real to the crowd and had drama in it. It looks less real to me that a guy can beat someone down and win within 3 minutes, in a fast paced X-division match with hardly any strikes or any moves that look as though they would actually hurt.
I guess you see wrestling as it is today and its always changing. Theres nothing wrong with flips because you need them type of moves in a match to keep the crowd hot or to add more to the story. Its a good topic but i do give you some leeway because you probably dint watch old school stuff and present day wrestling is the only thing that appeals to you.

[Neil Adams]

Personally I love the spectacle of pro wrestling. The drama, the emotion, the passion, I do however, think it's healthy to watch and enjoy all forms of wrestling and I think the happy medium is being able to balance both types of styles on one card to make the perfect show, with it being harder to please crowds in these modern times.

However for KidKris to say:
"The Misawa, Flair, Race, Funk matches were NOT real wrestling just a load of fat wrestlers (mostly) kicking the sh*t out of each other for 15 min"

I think that is downright disrepectfull.

[themonkeyboy]

some flips can work in a match like a shootin star or 450 but when they do flips over the top rope to outside an the guy there wrestling is back on his feet a couple of seconds later whats the point in doin it. i would rather watch a match involing beniot, bret hart, flair, race or the funks than any x divison match, people like triple h, ,hart an flair will always be remembered then aj an evans cause they make wrestling look real.

[Shane Tyler]

For me I like watching the X-Division guys more but that’s just me, I am not saying I don’t enjoy watching Benoit or Flair either, I just find The crazy dare devil stuff really enjoyable to watch.


Plus saying that Misawas, Flairs, Race's and Funks matches were NOT real wrestling
What is real wrestling exactly? There isn’t real wrestling it’s a form of entertainment. Every style is equal to being called real wrestling.

[drain]

i like both i prefer the x divison but ill never be able to do that stuff so i gotta respect the "real" wrestling.

[Big Sam]

well I kinda agree with egan and neil I mean who is kidkris who is only 14yrs old to compare AJ style to workers such as flair, funk, misawa etc. How much money has Aj drew........ compared to the aforementioned gentlemen. Kidkris it is mine and Jamies opinon that wot u said is a slap in the face to the guys that don't want to do "750 jump outta the window in a ball of fire, shooting star 720 DDT!!!!! GET IT!!!!!!!!!!

[themiracle]

Its a good mix for me. I cant watch World of Sport at all, and i cant watch a ric flair match. i find straight up wrestling boring. On the flipside, i find Teddy Hart boring. So he can do a 630, he doesnt know when to do it for maximum effect - i saw a match where he did it within the first few minutes. whats left to enjoy if someones just flipped almost twice in the first 4 minutes?

There needs to be a good mix. People like Chris Daniels, Petey Williams, Chris Sabin, and the like have a good mix. They are solid wrestlers who can put on a decent match, but can also bust out a move that makes you say "whooaaa". In a day when wrestling isnt about silly costumes and overt flamboyancy, you need to have something else to grab peoples attention, and to most audiences, people like Misawa, Race and Flair are only entertaining because of their name, not because of their abilities.

[Chris]

As Obi said it is always nice to see a solid wrestler who doesn't need to fill a match with the same stuff, Christopher Daniels and Jyushin Liger are the perfect examples.

I am not saying i don't like people like Styles and Evans. Like many people i like to watch all forms of wrestling, and at times i have been impressed. But the point that hits, and really slaps me one over and over again is that when you have seen people like AJ and Evans wrestle in a big match once you have seen it all. It better to not expect something coming in wrestling than watching waiting for it to be done. Like the Ganso Bomb, yeah it might of been a botch, but now its legendary and only comes out in really big matches. Or the first Shining Wizard, when Mutoh did it everyone was amazed and now its probably the most popular indy move. I mean Jack Evans cant do much except flips and daft moves. But when you look at Styles, there have been times when you have seen the most amazing wrestling out of him, which makes you think, as much as the crowds love high flying stuff, why not add in a bit of wrestling too.

Take some of his Impact matches, there were times that he got the pin after 5 minutes of spots and one finishing move. Now thats not real. Where as people like Race, Funk, Hansen then, and people like Flair, Misawa, Mutoh, Kobashi still to this day make wrestling look real, adding the emotion and storytelling that is needed.

[twissie]

When Triple H and Shawn Michaels go against each other, they look great and looks emotional and at times real (but we really know its not ). Ive never seen Jack Evans in a match but ive seen a few of his spots and they are just stupid but you know what they say guys-
what ever floats your boat.

[Neil Adams]

Somewhere in Foley's book he touches on this similar argument. He points out the fact that The Undertaker, for example, gets much more of a pop for diving over the ropes maybe once a year than some cruiserweights get for doing these 'dare-devil' moves every night. The point he was making was that it isn't always about what you do but when you do it. I think it made alot of sense.

[Jaqk Halewood]

It's not just about story-telling though. Well, to an extent it is but at the same time someone like AJ Styles could sit down with someone else and plan out a match with a good clear structure, and the match could tell a story and build in its entirety perfectly to a fantastic climax. But he still wouldn't be a great wrestler.

I don't really know how I can explain it but I'll give it a shot. If someone is truly great at something, it exudes out of them even when they're not doing necessarilly-great things. You can just, I dunno, tell from watching someone whether or not they're great at what they do. It's like, they're not trying to have a great match, they're just having a match and almost without effort, they're having a great match because they ARE great.

The difference between AJ Styles and Harley Race isn't that AJ "does lots of fancy moves and Harley told a story". The difference is that one of the aforementioned was great at what he did whilst the other simply isn't.

[kidkris]

i fu.ckin didnt say that flair was poop i luv watchin flair hes awsome the japanies style to me is poo but thats my oppinion to u egan and kelly and everyone else who luvs it im not calling you becaulse it but its bullpoop that yet another post about me has bbeen posted just cos i dont watch and like it dussnt mean i dont respect them they all do wat i whant to do so in a way iven tho i dont like there style there setting the path for me and others to break into the buisness for god sake guys lay off me just cos i dont like missawa and keta kobashi but do like aj styles and jack evans dussnt mean i like them becaulse off the amount of flips they can do its cos they entertain me so stop it leave me alon i take all your crazy f**k.in japanises moves dont i egan so that dont mean i dont like it

[Jesster]

Kris, this post wasn't about you. Egan was merely using a conversation he had with you to bring up the point of new school flips vs old school 'wrestling'. If you notice, we've been talking about it afterwards, not typing "Kris is a litle idiot an I wsh he were ded." So don't take things so personally.