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Post by Shannon Philips on Sept 14, 2005 14:02:49 GMT
Well, in my infinitive wisdom, I've decided that there aren't enough 'general' topics in the 'General Discussion' section. So, like the cold hearted avenger I am, I've decided to post a thread on the most general of all things...comic books (or graphic novels if you're fancy). Thing is, for those you turn their noses up at comics, you've probably seen a few on the screen. Road to Perdition, A History of Violence, Sin City, LXG and Blade are all films based on popular comic books. They're not just colourful picture books or SFX loaded blockbusters oh no, comics reflect the very nature of postmodern society. You see, the most iconic comic book super heroes of our time; Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, have all been forged in a vice of social, political and economical pressures and values. Captain America for example was created in 1941 by two fellows named Jack Kirby and Joe Simon, and served mainly as a vehicle to boost American Patrioism during WW2. Seems obvious enough. Superman however, outlines the journey and struggle of Jewish Immigrants in America in the early 1930s. Created by two young, jewish immigrants, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, the idea of being an alien in a strange place, the idea that coming to another culture from a doomed world and starting your life afresh, with a new identity, appealed to the immigrant masses, and made Supes an overnight success. Batman's popularity, is due to the fact that he is "meta-human" (normal, no powers) and yet he continues to use his smarts and detective skills to hang with supers. The idea that with dedication and motivation, anyone could be Batman, is his most endearing quality. He is by far the most dark and brutal character, obbsessive and paranoid, he is driven beyond all else. Losing Robin, when the joker beat him to death with a tire iron, almost sent him over the edge, and although the issue came out in 1998, the effects are still felt today. He parent's senseless murder, and his desire to make sure no one else ever has to go through what he did, make him the most compelling character ever. Besides, Superman entrusted him with a Kryptonite ring, and Batman constantly beats Superman s h i tless with it. I'm by no means a comic expert, just a fan. So people, feel free to post!!!
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Jesster
Mid Carder
Clothesline from Hull!
Posts: 418
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Post by Jesster on Sept 14, 2005 14:13:29 GMT
Spider-Man deserves a mention here. His was (I believe) the first comic book to feature the death of a lead supporting character (This was long before the death of Robin). It was his long time love interest Gwen Stacy. However, I was asked (By Shane) to mention The Green Lantern in the guise of Kyle Rayner here. So I shall. Kyle came across the powers, not because he was specifically chosen for his ability, like previous GL's, but because he was the only person there when the Guardian with the last ring came to earth in desperation. At first everything seems really cool, he gets his girlfriend back. he gets a cool costume, gets to save the day. Then it all goes horribly wrong, coming home to his girlfriend, he finds a note from her on the table. That she's left a surprise in the fridge. Upon opening the fridge, he finds her blood-coated, dead body. That's the point when Major Force reveals himself as the killer, working for the American government. Kyle nearly killed him. This dark side of Kyle Rayner appeared only once more. When his friend was beaten up and put in a coma merely because he was homosexual. Kyle, again, almost killed the guy who did it. This also forced Kyle to leave Earth altogether, entrusting his job to John Stewart (the black guy you can see on Cartoon Network in the Justice League). The fact that Kyle could create anythign he wanted to with his ring allowed the writers and artists to allow their imaginations free roam, and with a good dose of humour Green Lantern continued to be as popular, if not more so, than when Hal Jordan used the moniker, before becoming evil, and then becoming Spectre.
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Post by Shane Tyler on Sept 14, 2005 14:16:13 GMT
i dont know anything about comic books but my fav comic book character is Spider-Man like his Style, funny thing is i hate spiders.
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CK Light
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mmm... fake lopsided smile...
Posts: 287
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Post by CK Light on Sept 14, 2005 14:18:58 GMT
Robin's dead?!?!?? Is that what the whole Dark Knight thing was about then?
I don't tend to read the ongoing comics like Batman, Spiderman etc, basically 'cause I can't afford to keep up with them, but I do have a few compilations of things that form self-contained stories- mostly Alan Moore stuff to be honest.
Watchmen is awesome, as is V for Vendetta and LXG. I've forgiven them for the Matrix Revolutions, but if the Wachowskis balls V up, I'll kick their asses!
I've also got the Jay and Silent Bob spin-offs- Chasing Dogma, Bluntman and Chronic and the Clerks comic, which are all great.
Has anyone read "My monkey's name is Jennifer"? It's hilarious, very surreal, has pirates, ninjas, transvestites, and a very, very angry monkey. It is a true work of genius.
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Post by Shannon Philips on Sept 14, 2005 14:20:29 GMT
Ah Gwen Stacy. Not the first to die in comics, but the first girlfriend to be killed by the hero...or was she??? It all goes horribly wrong for Spidey, when the Green Goblin follows him home one night (why didnt we think of that?) to find his secret identity. Push comes to shove, before Goblin captures then-girlfriend Gwen Stacy and holds her above Brooklyn Bridge, threatening to drop her if Spidey doesn't let him escape. Spidey agrees, only for Gobin to drop her anyway. Spider-Man (much like the film) jumps down and shoots a web line to catch poor ol' Gwen, only to find out that..duh duh duhhh....her neck had been broken from inertia, the sudden stop from Spidey's webline had haulted her body's terminal velocity, and snapped her neck. Poor Spidey.
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Post by Shane Tyler on Sept 14, 2005 14:29:58 GMT
wow there are quite alot of interesting stories in comics, could u tell us how robin died? ;D
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Post by Shannon Philips on Sept 14, 2005 14:39:20 GMT
Quick history here...The first Robin (willy Grayson) leaves Batman to become Nightwing and lead his own battle in Bludhaven. His replacement, Jason Todd, becomes Robin, but is unstable and lacks the disciplin that Grayson had. Batman takes him off active duty, and leaves the country to pursue Joker. After finding his real mother, Todd disobeys Batman's orders, and he is tricked into saving her, only ot find out she's working with Jokes. After being beaten by various thugs, Joker takes a tire iron to Robin, and beats him to near death. Joker then sets a bomb, and just before the time limit is gone, Robin crawls over and trys to shield his mother (who betrayed him) from the blast, to no avail. They both die, for Batman to find minutes later. Batman never forgives himself, and is reluctant to accept help off anyone. The third Robin, Tim Drake, takes over and is on again off again working for Batman. Stephanie Brown (who was previously a vigilante called Spolier) Tim Drake's girlfriend, takes over, in order to get closer to him and prove her worth as a crimefighter. She is eventually captured, tortured and finally murdered by gangster crime lord Blackmask.
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si
Lower Card
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Post by si on Sept 14, 2005 14:41:42 GMT
In the main continuity of Batman there has been three Robin's. The first, willy Grayson, eventualy outgrew the role and now has his own comic book line fighting crime as Nightwing. He stil shows up in the Batman comics fairly often, for the larger arcs. Jason Todd was probably thrust into the role too quickly, because Batman was missing willy, he was too young and too reckless and ended up getting blown up by the Joker in themiddle east, that's what 'A Death In The Family' is about. The third and current Robin is called Tim Drake, he took a lot longer to earn the mantle, but seems to have fit in well. He's currently retired because his dad found out and objected, but a return to the fold seems immenent. That's with regard to the Trade paperbacks anyway, which tend to run about 9 months behind, so it's probably all been resolved by now.
I always thought Spiderman was a bit of a f*g, but that's just me.
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Post by Shannon Philips on Sept 14, 2005 14:44:58 GMT
Jason Todd was probably thrust into the role too quickly, because Batman was missing willy Yay!!!! Si knows his comics!!!! Come credibility to the Thread... And I'm loving the fact that this board renames D ick Grayson 'Willy Grayson'. Makes for an interesting read.
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si
Lower Card
Posts: 106
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Post by si on Sept 14, 2005 14:45:28 GMT
Oh, and Kier, the Dark Knight Returns/Strikes Again is/are not part of the standard continuity, they are set very far into the future, with Batman and other superheroes coming out of returement. Returns is F*CKING AWESOME, Strikes Again not so much, especially as it deals in much the same kind of thing as Kingdom Come, which is a million better. Incedentally, The Dark Knight Strikes Again features a fourth Robin now that I come to think of it, and it's a GIRL!
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Jesster
Mid Carder
Clothesline from Hull!
Posts: 418
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Post by Jesster on Sept 14, 2005 15:01:59 GMT
I felt The Long Halloween is one of the best Batman series. Its sequel, Dark Victory, is also brilliant, and I feel explains better than any other, why Batman would have a partner at all. If you haven't read them, you should.
And I knew Si was even cooler than he'd shown.
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Post by Jack Toxic on Sept 14, 2005 15:08:51 GMT
How could you all forget about one of the greatest?! My second favourite character (Spider-man's my fav) Wolverine.
Wolverine History Part 1:
James Howlett was born into privilege in Alberta, Canada, during the late 19th century, the second son of John and Elizabeth Howlett. Young James' mother was distant and remote due to the untimely death of her first son. Growing up the sickly James was close friends with the red headed Rose, his companion and tutor, and "Dog," the son of the Howletts cruel groundskeeper Thomas Logan. Dogs' growing obsession with Rose finally prompted him to attack her -- forcing Jame's farther to fire and evict him and dog from their home on the Howlett's estate. The groundskeeper and his son stole into the mansion the next night and attempted to convince Mrs. Howlett to leave with them. Apparently, Thomas and Elizabeth Howlett had engaged in a ongoing affair. When John Howlett interupted their discussion Thomas shot and killed his former employer. At the shock of seeing his farther murdered, James manifested his latent mutant abilities, and bone claws jutted from the back of each hand. The beast within the boy had been unleashed at last, James attacked and killed Thomas, and slashed Dogs face. Completely unhinged by the violence, Elizabeth took her own life. James suffered a severe mental breakdown; his mutant abilities "healed" his mind as well as his body, blocking all the memories of his last months at the Howlett estate.
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S!S!B!
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V.1 Destroy's the Charismatic enigma
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Post by S!S!B! on Sept 14, 2005 15:19:09 GMT
see this is an attempt at beating my Banner thread and I can tell you it isn't going to work......consider this WAR!!!!.......Muahahahahahaha *keeps laughing in evil manner*
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pownall
Mid Carder
giggity giggity
Posts: 316
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Post by pownall on Sept 14, 2005 15:32:20 GMT
Personally i've never been able to keep up with continuous comicbooks, like batman and superman, etc, that just keep going, folding new stories into each other forever and ever, simply becuase i could never afford to keep up. Just as i'd really start to get into a particular story i wouldnt be anble to buy the next in the series, used to leave me gutted and disenchanted. How ever i did used to get the comics that had complete, mini stories in them, there were alot of x-man comics that had stand alone stories contained in them, so i've read alot of them. And ive been known to take out the "all in one" graphic novels from the library if they've caught my eye fro some reason, for instance the both the batman vs predator comics, and the superman vs alien one (altho i only skimmed through it in the library itself). I've always found the anti-hero characters to be the more rounded and appealing though. The darker side of batman (not the camp tv show for instance, but the darker films and comics for sure), Blade was another anti-hero i enjoyed reading about, and eventually seeing on the big screen, although i felt by adding the female-interest into the film they added a humane element that stolef rom the fact the blade hunts vampires purely for revenge...and because he can. Wolverine is another kickass anti-hero, he fights not becuase of his ideals of "truth and justice" but because hes an angry lil bastard who wants to hurt people. On a side note, i never did like the incredible hulk, who was the orginal anti-hero. Im not sure why, but he bores me (the poope film didnt help either). All in all i feel the current trend in hollywood turning superhero comics into films is starting to tear away at the fabric and integrity fo the comics, there are "rules" to what you can and cant have your "good guys" doing in movies, especially as alot of movie gowers will assume superhero films are for kids. Look at the batman films, as the age certificate fell so did the quality of the movie in general. hmmm, theres a question, which comicbook movie do you thikn is the worst of the bunch..? Mines gotta be Steele, that was proper poo-poo. for info on up coming comic book movies, check out www.efavata.com/CBM/
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si
Lower Card
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Post by si on Sept 14, 2005 15:40:53 GMT
Dave, try doing what I do, buy the Trade paperbacks, which are released after an complete storyline is finished, and contains every edition from the period, it saves with having to keep up, or buy different titles in crossovers. The only problem is that you have to work a few months behind.
I always thought Wolverine to be massively over-rated, he's fine as part of a team, but he's just not got enough character depth to hold my attention, aside from the unknown past thing there just not that much to him, he's often a victim of lazy writing.
Have you ever seen the Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.E.I.L.D movie staring David Hasselhoff? That goes as well as you'd imagine.
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